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Now that I’m in my late 20s, I’m starting to meet more older people as I socialize. Along with that, incidents where I get hit on by married men.
Just to be clear, I’m not interested in married guys, or guys who are attached, engaged, or in love with someone else (even if they are not attached). Not only would being with such guys be against my values, but the fact that a guy can hit on me while being in a (monogamous) relationship automatically eliminates him as someone I’d be interested in.)
(To cheat would be to lie to and betray your partner, which is not in line with honesty. And truth and authenticity are two of my core values.)
So whenever married guys hit on me or try to get oddly close with me, I would put things straight. I would make it clear that I’m only looking at the relationship as a friendship and/or business relationship, and there’s nothing else I’m interested in lest they try anything funny. (I would love to print screen and show you such conversations but I’ve deleted them all.) I would rather err on the side of caution than deal with sticky messes later on.
The Birth of a Thought
Being hit on by married men got me thinking about marriages. While I have never thought about getting married (I think about life in a sequential fashion, and I don’t see the point of thinking about marriage when I’m not even with the right partner yet), I do think that marriage is an important milestone for many.
I also think that in our society today, marriage is synonymous with bliss, “ever after,” and the “sealing” point of one life stage and the beginning of a happy life. Especially because most people see singlehood as a disease.
However, as I grow older, I keeping hearing stories of relationships in distress. Couples with irreconcilable differences. Engaged couples breaking up just before marriage. Married couples who remain married but have not been sleeping together for a while. Partners seeing other people behind their partners’ backs. Marriages on the rocks. Divorces. Couples breaking up after being together for a very long time: some of them once seen as the perfect couple to model after, and some childhood sweethearts. Friends’ friends getting pregnant from sleeping with married men and then going for abortions, only to continue the affair thereafter.
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Stories of Failed Relationships
Such stories have made me realize that just because someone is married or in a relationship doesn’t mean that everything is “happily ever after.” Far from it.
For example, my friend’s cousin got married several years ago. She met her husband through a dating service and they got together fairly quickly. Marriage followed soon after (within a year or two of dating), and following that, a baby.
On the surface, it seems as though everything is unfolding according to their life plans and the expectations of the Singapore society—get married by a certain age (mid to late 20s for the female and early 30s for the male), have a baby within two to three years of marriage, get busy with their careers while having someone—usually a domestic helper—help with the baby, before planning for a second baby one to two years down the road.
However, the couple’s marriage is now on the rocks. Apparently, things haven’t been well for a while. The wife has been undergoing serious depression and unleashing emotional fits at everyone particularly her husband, while the husband has been drained from trying to mend the relationship. The maid is verbally abused and often singled out as the scapegoat for anything that goes wrong; the family has changed over 10 maids in two years.
The last I heard, the wife is insisting on a divorce and the husband, now jaded, has acceded to the request. How about the baby, you ask? Not sure. Most likely going with the mom.
Another example: A friend of mine was engaged to his high school sweetheart. He met her when they were in high school, fell in love, and got together. It seems like the relationship of everyone’s dreams, doesn’t it—being with your first love, being in a long-term relationship, and then heading towards marriage. However, seven years into the relationship and right before the wedding, they broke up.
Why? The relationship just wasn’t working out anymore. One of the partners cheated on the other and was discovered.
These stories are among the many I’ve heard or witnessed over the years, of couples whom you thought were heading towards the path of “ever after,” but got violently jolted out of this “fantasy” along the way.
Most Successful Relationships I’ve Seen
On the other hand, some of the most successful relationships I’ve seen are the couples I met when I was in Europe and the U.S. in 2011. Incidentally, non-married couples with no concrete plans to get married.
At the time I knew these couples, they had been together for at least five years, some well over ten years, and going strong. Between each couple is a strong understanding of each other, unspeakable camaraderie, open communication, and a deep respect for each other.
While none of the couples spoke of marriage or have immediate marriage plans except for one (this is especially so in Europe as marriage has less significance compared to in Asia), these couples have some of the most conscious relationships I have seen — some married couples I know. This made me question the significance of marriage in a relationship.
It made me wonder: Beyond providing a stigma-free environment to raise a kid, does marriage actually forward a relationship? Is it a milestone every citizen should work towards? Is it a natural milestone every couple should strive for? Will it guarantee a “happily ever after”? Of course there is never a guarantee for anything, but still…? Some questions to ponder over.
The Married Men Who Hit On Me
For the married men who approach me, I’m not one to judge. They are free to do whatever they want with whomever they want. My role is to reject them if they approach me, not to judge them on some moral high ground. I disagree with their way of life but I also know that their life is their life and everyone has the right to do what he/she wants, while biding by a certain moral code of course.
(Cheating is a very grey area. IMO its not acceptable. Some people may think otherwise.)
However, I can’t help but think that there’s probably something missing in these guys’ marriages if they are approaching women who are not their spouses. Beyond the typical, cop-out “men are designed to sow their oats” answer (which I think is BS — as conscious beings we should expect more of ourselves), I believe their infidelity stems from a lack in their relationship. There is something which they need/want in a relationship, be it a physical, emotional, mental, or spiritual, but they can’t get it from their spouse or marriage. This leads them to seek solace outside their marriage.
Now I’m not trying to justify their behavior. Neither am I trying to condone cheating or saying that it’s okay—I just said that cheating is not okay in my book. I’m merely considering a possible reason why they are cheating or trying to cheat, because it’s by understanding the problem that we can come to a resolution, not by finger pointing and playing the blame game.
I believe the reason they cheat is because there is a gap festering in their marriage. This gap has probably been there for a while but has never been looked into. Cheating is merely a symptom, an effect, of a fundamental issue plaguing their marriage/relationship.
The Lesson I Have Learned
Unlike how the post may sound so far, my purpose of writing this isn’t to debunk the notion of marriage or its value.
In fact, I see merit in marriage. I see it as a beautiful union between two souls, if the people getting married are truly in love with each other (vs. being in love with the idea of marriage). I see it as a wonderful celebration of two people in love. I think love should be celebrated by everyone because it’s a beautiful part of life. I do think that marriage is something that one should work towards if it is what they want.
(While I’ve not thought about the place of marriage in my life or if I am ever going to get married, getting married to someone I love would be nice to witness one day, if it happens. I think it would be a beautiful day to look forward to, that’s for sure. :D )
A stock image of a wedding gown which I came across and found beautiful (Image: Shutterstock)
However, rather than obsess about getting married, getting married by a certain age, or getting into a relationship as soon as possible, perhaps what we should focus on are (a) whether we are being the right person for a wholesome relationship to develop, and (b) whether we are taking the right steps to meet the right person (for us).
Because when all you are concerned with is getting married by a certain age or to find a girlfriend/boyfriend without deep consideration of what you want in a partner or whether you are ready to commit to a serious relationship, you are setting yourself up for failure in romance.
Because to obsess about getting married or getting into a relationship with someone when you have yet to find your compatible match is like putting the cart before the horse.
What’s wrong with this image here? (Image)
It’s not “wrong” to do so per se… it’s just… not thinking about things in the right order.
While the broadline elements (such as having a partner, getting married, having a kid, and so on) may be present if you follow such an approach and evaluate your life in a checkbox fashion, while you may be able to claim “bragging” rights in front of your peers and get relief from saying “Oh look, I’m getting married!” or “Hey, I’m in a relationship! So stop asking me to find a girl/boyfriend!”, you will only get a hollow relationship/life. Because the fundamental ingredients (having the right partner, having the right mindset/attitude towards a relationship) are not present.
And this—having the “right” ingredients, the “right” people in the relationship—is the most important criterion for any relationship to succeed.
On the other hand, when you become the right person—”right” meaning whatever you define as your ideal self; read Day 5 of Be a Better Me in 30 Days on Discover Your Ideal Self—and meet someone compatible for you, everything will naturally fall into place.
Sure, you will still have to work hard at the relationship. Sure, you will still have your ups and downs in life and in the relationship. Sure, you will still face disagreements and conflicts which you have to work through with your partner.
However, these will be problems that you will be able to work through with your partner as a couple, no matter how tough they may be, simply because the necessary foundations in the relationship—love for each other and fundamental compatibility in personality and values—are in place. These relationship “big rocks” as I call them will be there to hold your relationship in place and help it soar to greatness.
*Turns to look at you* And these big rocks, my angels, will be your magic bullet towards having a successful marriage or relationship in the long haul.
Let’s work hard at becoming the “right” person and meeting the “right” person, shall we? ;) Good luck!
Some posts to start being the “right” person:
- Finding Your Inner Self
- How To Be a Better Person: 101 Ways
- 101 Important Questions To Ask Yourself
- Live a Better Life in 30 Days, Day 15: Identify Your Values
- Be a Better Me in 30 Days, Day 5: Discover Your Ideal Self
Update Sep 2013: Since writing this post, I’ve found my soulmate, and I share our story and tips on how you can find yours too: How To Find Your Soulmate. Check out my Love category for more posts on finding love.
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What a brilliant article – really sensitively written, too. Love it.
Thank you so much for your kind words Beheshteh! :) Really appreciate it! :)
Nice article … deep :angel: … :angel:
The thing you forgot is that women change. Their drive wakens after their child bearing years while for men it never does. This causes immense stress in the male. Immense. The failure to recognize this, and to comply somehow, makes men look elsewhere. Unfortunately many women who try to accommodate the sexual needs of the male do it half halfheartedly or fake it. Men suffer this process because they can tell. It then becomes logical for them to search outside the marriage and find you. Did you know that in some countries the lack of sexual attention by the female in the marriage provides for ample grounds for divorce?
It doesn’t matter what is the reason driving their infidelity or whether it’s the female’s fault or the male’s fault. The point is that if there is an issue, those men should talk it through with their wives first, and if irreconcilable, then file for divorce or file for separation first before trying to look for attention of females outside of the marriage. They are at the very least bound by their marital vows and to look for women outside of their marriage is dishonoring those vows.
By the way, just so you know, the married men I’m referring to in this article include almost newly weds as well as men whose wives have babies on the way.
And I’m not faulting this as a “men” vs. “women” issue as I know there are married women who cheat as well. Your comment seems to have framed it into a gender issue and hence I’m responding in that matter. Whatever I wrote above would apply to married females who cheat as well.
Hi Migs,
I think that you are sort of making excuses for men to cheat/ look elsewhere.
I myself is a guy, and i believe as a guy, one should have an open heart to compromise each other and communicate to forward the relationship so as to speak.
Blaming on the other gender doesn’t help you at all. In fact, it puts you in the thinking that it’s always the females’ faults. Taking responsibility to improve/ change the negative stuff that happened can be the first step for couples.
Cheers,
James
So wonderfully put and explained. :dance:
I just think the same as you and you said everything.
Thanks for daring to say all that :clap:
Thanks Julie! :) I’m glad that you share the same views as well! Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment! :)
I enjoyed this article. In particular, I like that:
1) You showed that you lead by example (and inner strength) by proactively and directly set things straight when someone married is getting close to the line
2) Contrasted between great underlying relationships vs. those that serve to meet social expectations
3) Pointed out that cheating may be a symptom to underlying problems in the relationship (or perhaps in other areas of the person’s life)
Over time, I had observed some relationships/marriages for what I would consider the “wrong” reasons (such as to meet external social success, family-political, money or fear of being alone.) The common theme after a while is that one or both sides are not very happy with their lives.
It leads me to realize something more important: We only live this life once. It’s up to us to live for the right reasons. Life is too short to be stuck in a dead-end and unsatisfying something – be it a job/profession, a relationship or fear. Unlike our video game character, we do not have multiple lives, saved-game retrievals or a big reset button. Our life is this, and that’s why we should live our best lives.
(OMG, I should bookmark this to read what I said today from time to time!)
Hey Michael, you are right! Whatever I’ve written applies not just for marriage but also for other things in our life, such as our jobs. We should look for something that fits what we want rather than sticking with something just to conform to the society or expectations. I also find it interesting that you have had the same observations of relationships/marriages around you, it shows that this phenomenon is just not limited to my side of the world. Thanks so much for such an insightful comment! :D
Dear Celes,
I enjoyed reading the article! The same happens to me ever since I’m 20 (now 25). I feel offended when a man (married or obviously far out of my age range) tries to hit on me. It used to make me feel reduced to an “object” of some sort (not anymore). It is clear that they have trouble in their life, and then they set out to find young women who are naive enough to be impressed by them. I made “not flirting/dating with older men” one of my relationship core rules. I do not want to be the cure or distraction to any problem they have with themselves (or with their wives).
So one evening in a chic bar, two older men tried to chat me and my friend up. I noted that the alcohol already showed an effect on them and tried to end the forced conversation. Then one of them tried to push himself closer to me and in this moment my eyes fell on his ring! I turned to him and said with a very serious, neutral voice: “Oh. Maybe you should go home and ask your wife and your children how they are.” He turned red with fury and even raised his fist towards me! I was grateful to see them leaving right away.
I think we owe it our self-respect to not get involved with “attached” guys and clearly establish boundaries when we deal with them. ;)
Thanks for sharing, Celes, I can relate to the article!
Lilly
Hey Lilly!
“I made “not flirting/dating with older men” one of my relationship core rules. I do not want to be the cure or distraction to any problem they have with themselves (or with their wives).”
I like that you did that. Being in a relationship is already hard enough as it is; you should ideally not get involved with someone who is already involved with someone else. Like you said, it’s going to just make you a cure/distraction to their issues if anything “blossoms” and it’ll not be fair to the third party (the wife/girlfriend).
And that was very commendable of you to speak up to that guy like this! I’m sure you must be the first girl to ever say that to him, which is why he reacted that way. Also beware of people with ring marks (a mark on their ring finger or skin tone difference) as many of these guys have a habit of removing their rings when outside picking up girls.
Thanks so much for sharing your story with us Lilly! :D :hug:
Very true – Marriage is taking like taking friendship to the next level. Where two people become friends and decide to come more closer to each other to share everything and make an unbreakable promise that come-what-may they will stay together and support each other.
You’re a beautiful. woman. I would hit on you if I was married or not.
Hey Celes,
Thank you for your thought provoking article, I have several comments:
synonymous with bliss, “ever after”
“singlehood as a disease” There is an enormous pressure for people to conform whether the are ready or not to get married in our society.
Many friends of my brother were married within the space of a couple of years. His ex-wife said that she felt was in a “Race to the altar” with my brother and his friends to be the first couple to get married.
“I believe the reason driving their infidelity is because there is something which they need/want in a relationship.”
I think that many people have been taught NOT to fulfil their needs but just to accept what is given by society our parents, teachers, employers, government etc. Then instead of searching within – we look outside to fill the gap.
“it’s through understanding of the problem that we can arrive at a resolution”
Not realising there is a choice, we accept situations and instead of dealing with our frustrations by using our emotions to guide ourselves by setting goals and seeking solutions we tend to look externally for a quick fix instead of a permanent solution.
We all need each other to survive, everyone has gold inside, sometimes it takes a lot of digging. Good relationships take time to develop and mature and should be thought of as long term by adding value to make people feel better.
After spending months coaching couples, it’s interesting to read your experiences. Seen this talk? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa0RUmGTCYY
Hi Celes!
I really felt it was worth sharing something I’ve done/discovered lately. It’s not really related to the discussion on married, so this feels slightly awkward here, but since it has some relation to your blog I’m hoping this would be of use to you. Hopefully your happy with this posted this here.
I may have said this once before, but I believe when we connect to the inner voice in our hearts, as long as we’re being humble or child-like or joyful or something that is pure, then we end up hearing from who I believe is the creator of life. For example, I believe with the anger issue you were able to overcome, you asked in your heart for inner healing and your inner self started to hear from the creator for what mistakes you were believing, getting an understand of it and through that you discovered an experience of love and healing for your heart to heal the wounds from anger.
I don’t believe what we human beings are in a stage of “enlightened” and “evolving” through changing our perceptions, that comes across as pride to me and attaching our happiness with “developing”, but I definitely agree there are these difference level of consciousness/sound frequencies/energies/electrical belief systems that shift our perceptions of life. I’ve had many experiences in a lot of these different negative perceptions and negative perceptions that appear to be positive too, where beliefs and habits developed seem to “improve” myself but really try to put the source of my happiness attached to some actions I do, or circumstances or what others think, when really the source of happiness is from within us in our hearts when we can let the love come through our hearts and overflow outwards.
So I also don’t believe we always perceive this reality in a single level on the consciousness until we are “enlightened” to the next level. But I do believe these negative consciousness are correct negative belief systems and perception traps we all can fall into, and we can make mistakes and when we talk with our inner voice in our hearts, if our intention is good, we can be healed from all of this.
I also believe something in our life can suddenly snap us into a certain set of negative beliefs, and then we can snap out of it into some loving beliefs, so our perception can change from hour to hour without dealing with root problems. Meaning we aren’t “stuck” on a consciousness, but we can switch between different perceptions depending on the personal beliefs and habits we developed.
I found the more I sensed in my heart and started to ask questions in my heart such as “I want to be healed from any anger, pride and addictions I have” the more a voice, which I believe is God, would lovingly start to show me where this negativity all came from. Help me understand it, see it in an honest light, see how it got in, and gave me a new revelation “ah ha” moment to see how to deal with the route cause and remove it from my life.
So I started to sense in my heart a lot, and I really sense I was told when we are child-like, meaning imaginative and not holding a dualistic view of life nor puffing ourselves with pride, and just do something with the intention of being in the moment expressing love holding no records then we can become more spontaneous and tap into thoughts of love from the creator that we can sense in our hearts.
I believe in this realm and reality the creator is a love consciousness that we can have a heart to heart relationship with, and we subconsciously do this anything we create and manifest love into our reality without realizing it.
So I tuned into a spontaneous thought patterns, started to try and think and be humble in my heart and sensed what came back. I really felt words came back saying “Why don’t you share what you believe here with Celes? Don’t tell her it’s a definite truth, but share the idea so she could test it for herself and see if she hears a voice in her heart confirm the same things too”.
I also sensed in my heart to share encouragement. That you have good intentions on being a kind person and sharing love in the world and helping others and this is all really good, that I should thank and appreciate that and encourage you to receive that type of appreciation in your heart knowing when your intentions and loving what you manifest here does a lot of good to the people and the world, so thanks so much Celes!
I also talk in my heart now and believe the love consciousness gives me pure and humble visions of things. I.e. He taught me my actions come from my habits which come from my beliefs. So if I become more aware of my thought patterns, making sure I only accept beliefs that produce love on myself and others, then my habits will become more loving and then I can send that out into the world.
Another lesson I was taught was when I want to develop I should imagine myself as I want to be, in a pure humble way. Both with my heart intentions on the inside and outside. Because two thoughts could say “Give money to charity” but one thought with my heart intention it’s done to spread love and help others, while the other thought disguises itself that way but is secretly done out of pride or pleasure . So I was taught to become more aware of the difference between the two type of thoughts, the humble spontaneous loving thoughts, and the pride-filled “good person” thoughts.
The reason being, what I imagine, if I keep imagine it before I develop a habit of it, then put some effort internally to develop that imagination it eventually manifest on me as my reality. So I ask the creator in my heart to give me pure imaginations that does good for myself and the world around me and then I put my heart intention and desire for them. I’ve noticed thanks to the creator on my heart that has really developed me into a better person as of late!
Another lesson I was taught to try and be on a joy “level of consciousness”, where I produce habits of having joy from my heart, being content and happy within me and trying to maturity choose my words more carefully with what I speak naturally having the intention to try and cheerfully make others happy too, but start with myself and looking after me of course.
I also got thoughts on my heart saying “I love you deeply, I want you to receive this love realizing it’s true and love yourself then love others, in this order”.
Lastly I really do believe I’m told Jesus knew these truths, and wanted to teach people to connect to the loving creator in their hearts, but he really did pay for our sins.
The problem is that people perceive this message incorrectly a lot. They attach the wrong meanings to the word sin, such as worthless or some other critical judgment when really we should be honest with ourselves and understand ourselves without judging or punishing ourselves!
Sin means he payed for the times we create barriers and blockage in our hearts preventing us to love, such as anger or fear, it’s not a word to mean we should hate ourselves for what we do that’s wrong. The point of love and what Jesus did was so we’d understand ourselves, why we do “sin”/”anger”/”fear”/whatever and allow the creator on our hearts to heal us from it.
I believe sin is also usually done as mistakes, meaning we do what we think is best in our heads at the time and disconnect ourselves from what we truly feel and sense from the creator in our hearts and all this can happen subconsciously without us purposely doing anything wrong to ourselves or others. But not a mistake in the sense we treat what we did as if “oh we made a mistake so it’s okay I’m improvement myself it wasn’t my fault”. That then creates the idea we are healing our own hearts, which actually starts to puff us up with pride, another sin/negative outcome that stops us being able to love.
I also think it’s wrong to attach guilt, shame, pain and negative emotions/feelings to that word. I believe Catholicism has done a lot of damage to that word perceiving in the wrong thought patterns instead of the loving perception of we should see sins, meaning see negativity, then try to understand one another, then try to love one another to help remove the sins/negative belief systems. So level of consciousness can actually be a really useful tool at discerning the different types of negative belief systems/sins to help understand others in them, and share love and honesty to them on how they can be healed from them and any emotional/spiritual/inner wounds.
I also actually believe the negative consciousness levels is a detached cancerous consciousness that when we believe and go into it we end up producing things like death or pain into the world.
So there are two consciousness. One is a consciousness of love, the creator and the other is a consciousness of negativity, something else pretending to be the creator that hates us and comes to us like a head bully.
I believe the negative consciousness can come in two forms. One pretending to be the love consciousness of the creator but (refer to charity example, it pretends to love and can distort the meaning of that word to pride/pleasure but true love doesn’t have insecurities, it’s full of live and spontaneous and deeply compassionate and caring from the heart level). That’s why we have to be careful if our beliefs are loving to ourselves and our hearts or harmful to ourselves and our hearts.
I.e. The idea we should punish ourselves for the past is wrong as that does more harm to our hearts, but so is the idea to “improve” upon a mistake as that fill us up with pride in our hears. I think the loving thought to accept on that particular perception/belief is that we make mistakes in the past, and we should understand why we made those mistakes then ask to heal ourselves and love again and let the love of the creator flow onto our hearts to heal the wrong/negative beliefs. That is what I truly believe sin and understanding sin is.
I hope either all of this, or some of this can be of use to you, next time you spend time with your inner voice try this type of exercise or ask these questions or to understand this in truth and honestly and see what happens.
You can try to seek these things in your heart, as it may be a little complicate or strange the way I’m saying it. Which may result in a faulty perception if this just reasoned over in the mind.
Ps
I’m the same person that posted a while back, I clumsily lost the password to my email address so I use this new one, one of the goals I set for this year was to grow in more good fruits of maturity and wisdom by connection more to my heart humbly so all the mess and clumsiness in my life is gone, haha!
Keep going with the blog! Thanks for all the wonderful articles you leave us with!
I’ve always thought of marriage as a legal contract that gives you tax breaks. No more, no less.
It’s funny how many people confuse marriage for something that leads to commitment. Commitment is a state of mind, no piece of paper will magically give you that!
Then again, my views on what constitutes a loving, committed relationship are pretty liberal compared to many people, since I’m polyamorous and currently in two happy, long-term relationships. ;-)
Thank you for the article. :) You give some good advice about becoming the “right” person before you get into a relationship.
Hai, I am a regular follower of your blog. I am delighted that you are in my Home town. How is your stay here in Chennai. mail me for any assistance. Have a nice trip.
Hey Pughal, I was there earlier this month. ;) I’m back in Singapore now (for now anyway). Thanks for your kind offer though! I’ll let everyone know the next time I’m back in Chennai and possibly arrange for a Chennai PE Readers Meet-Up.
It would have been great to have had chennai PE meet this time. Awesome idea though. Hope to have one next time. How was the trip btw? Share a post on your india experience.
Hi pughai, travel is not something that’s very relevant to PE, so I’m not planning to write anything about it. I do post about my random travel thoughts on Facebook, so if you wish, you can follow my updates there: http://www.facebook.com/celestinechua. :)
(As my chennai trip is not something relevant to topic, you can post on my Facebook if you have further comments/questions about it. Thank you! :) )
Hi Celes–I enjoyed reading (while I wasn’t cringing) your article about married men “hitting” on you. I’m going to attempt to keep a very big topic very short. I’m married now for 27 years (to a Chinese woman–the best–I’m an American, and 2 great kids) so I have a much greater perspective than someone half my age, like you, who can only speak from limited experience–no offense. Firstly, may I suggest that you become grateful and honored to be found attractive by another man–married or otherwise, trust me, this will not last for too many more years and please don’t shoot the messenger. Secondly, marriage is really a ridiculous act that is beneficial for mass order (tax paying, etc) than individual workability–hence the Europeans you mentioned who seemed to have better relationships confirms this. I mean, if you have to file papers in city hall to say you’re “married” then you’re pretty messed up to begin with. Most people, like me, got sucked into it as it’s a worldly tradition and no one wants to feel out of place. Thirdly, “marriage” is not a natural state of being for humans (most) and not for almost any other mammal either. So when you refer to “cheating” (and of course no one likes a cheater) it’s actually based upon a false premise, i.e. that monogamy is some kind of natural biological human dynamic–which it’s not. I think there would be a lot fewer break ups if we all understood that occasional straying is completely natural and should be understood in its proper context. Oh, and by the way, I met the woman I married the exact day that I decided that that’s what I wanted. You will too. Brian
Hey Brian, your comment sounds like it’s taking a stance against marriage, which is fine but it’s not really something I have a vested interest in. My article wasn’t written in support for nor against marriage, and I was never trying to do that throughout the article if you read it carefully. People who like to get married should go ahead and do it; people who don’t, then simply don’t. It’s free choice and I don’t care either way.
Regardless of whether married men want to hit on me or not, I do not care as well. If they do not hit on me, good for me because that’s one less thing I have to deal with in life, because having different men constantly messaging me for attention can be quite a stressful situation to deal with, which was what I was facing for a good half of last year and continue to face every now and then. If they do hit on me, that’s nice and I do feel flattered by the attention/interest. Then I’ll put them straight.
Lastly, with regards to whether “marriage” or whether “monogamy” is a natural state or not is totally not the point I was trying to make with regards my issue with married men cheating. The point is they lied to their wives behind their backs, projecting an illusion that they are monogamous to them (their wives) when they are around them but romancing other women when they are behind their backs. That, lying in itself, is not acceptable. This is a human-to-human issue, not a “marriage” or “monogamy” issue. If they no longer love their wife and simply want to meet someone else, sure, go get a divorce or file for separation first, then romance some other woman. If they still love their wife but want to meet another woman, then let their wife know and see if she is open with an open relationship concept or a polygamous relationship, before trying to get involved with another woman. But don’t pretend to be faithful or monogamous when they are trying to look for women behind their wives’ backs. This is just blatantly lying regardless of how one tries to justify the situation.
I made this same point with regards to Migs’ comment above.
I also have to add that your point on “I suggest that you become grateful and honored to be found attractive by another man–married or otherwise, trust me, this will not last for too many more years” is extremely condescending to me as a woman or any woman for that matter. There is nothing to be “grateful” or “honored” in other men finding me attractive — I will appreciate whatever attention I get from someone, man or woman, friend or foe, but I do not see why I have to be particularly “grateful” or “honored” just because a man finds me attractive. Your comment is demeaning to me as a female and in a way objectifies females as a gender to be “found attractive” or not by males.
I hope you can understand my point of view and take this feedback constructively as I’m doing to yours. Thank you.
Hi Celes–In many respects, well put. I will say this, however: The ones who seem to have such a grip on this whole topic are those who also have no real experience with relationships, either. The cosmic joke here is that you are not wrong or right, it’s just your opinion and may not work for all. On another note, I’m quite amazed how such an eloquent, pretty, and smart woman as you has not found your romantic match. I suspect you will, though, soon–if you so desire. All Best, Brian
Hi Brian, everything on PE is simply my own opinion and I have always advocated for readers to read, take what they wish, and apply what’s relevant to their own lives. This article is no different. Thanks for your well wishes; I wish you all the best to you, your wife and your kids too. Much love. :)
Hi Celes,
I completely agree with you that it doesn’t make sense to think about marriage if you’re not in a relationship with someone you love–I feel exactly the same way. But having a vision of what you desire is powerful, so I thought it was cool that you shared a picture of such a beautiful wedding dress that I’m sure you will wear someday :)
It’s an interesting observation that European couples don’t place as much of an emphasis on marriage (I’ve heard this from more than one source), and that unmarried couples are often happier. Definitely something to ponder.
Thank you for writing such a thought provoking article!
~Christina
Hi Celes,
Interesting article and a good read. I was wondering if you could elaborate on what constitutes as being “hit on” by married men. Are you talking about a friendly/helpful comment (ie “I could take a look at your car oil leak”) or an completely inappropriate comment (ie “My wife’s out of town, come sleep at my place!”)?
Just to give a little background, I’m a happily married man of over a year and have dated my wife for over 7 years since high school. Of my close friends, a large number are single females and are also close with my wife. I would hang out with them during sporting events, movies, hiking, fishing, golfing, etc. sometimes with or sometimes without my wife depending on work conflicts or business trips. These friendships have always been platonic and never evolved into anything sexual as it was never an issue that came up or was even considered.
Recently I overheard a single female co-worker talking about how she was “hit on” by a married man when he offered his services to coach her in golf. I thought it was a ridiculous assumption and was fully expecting the group she was conversing with to agree with my thoughts, but they all agreed with her and thought that it was inappropriate as he was married. I was completely dumbfounded! Is this how most single females think? Are married men not allowed to make any new female friends anymore? As a newly married man, must I now be cautious and not friendly with single females in fear of being labeled a creep?
Thanks,
Dan
Hi Dan! It’s contextual – it would depend on cultural norms and the relationship between both parties. For example, when a guy invites a girl to go on a solo overseas trip, usually that’s deemed as an invitation for sex (at least where I’m from). But that alone isn’t a data point for me to conclude whether the person is hitting on me or not. There are other factors I weigh in, like the situation, how well I know the person, and his other communications with me up till then. So I may have a friend inviting me to go to his place for a cookout + watch DVDs but I may well regard it as platonic without thinking otherwise, whereas there may be this (significantly older, married) guy I just met who ask me if I want to overseas with him after 2 days of knowing him (while heavily flirting with me in his messages up till then), and that would clearly be suggestive.
Certainly, there should be a certain boundary observed between platonic friends. As long as you observe that and you have no other intentions, I think that would be fine. I think some females do like the idea that guys are hitting on them and might like to play up/exaggerate on the male attention they get, and the lady you mentioned might have been one of them.
I think it’s good for both married males and females to have friends of opposite genders outside of their marriage; otherwise it puts too much expectations and pressure on the relationship. I have good friends who are married (of both genders) and we are friendly with each other without once thinking that either party has a non-platonic intention. So yeah, whatever you are doing, I say just continue doing your thing – it sounds like you are doing things right! And congratulations on your happy marriage with your wife too! :D I’m really happy for both of you.
Celes,
I really loved the article. Like your multiple views on Friendship, Marriage and Flirting. Being Gorgeous itself will attract attention from many sides.. and upon that if you look or sound innocent or being sentimental then opp guys will take you as an easy chance. This happens for both Male and Female. The most important thing is that people confuse sex as a deciding factor for a relationship. For some people sex is more like a therapy to keep them happy. I’ve seen Married couple being happy with multiple so called extra-marital affairs.
As you said marriage is something that merges soul of partners, some cultures approve multiple partners and some cultures only 2 partners. The question of infidelity comes in picture when a Partner finds some kind of happiness in another 3rd person but cannot accept the 3rd person legally due to cultural restrictions.
Coming part of avoiding flirty married person, who knows you may find your partner in one such person. Not all married couple are compatible and same goes for single persons. Yes, cheating your partner and engaging for a long term affair does not seem fair.
I would rather say enjoy your life to fullest in the safest way.
thanks,
Sunil
What is the demographic of those men hitting on you? Race/age???
Any race, any age from early 20s even up to 60s. How would that matter though? Neither is really the point of this article.
You know the guy you mention whose marriage broke down, and ten maids had to leave? I’d tend to put 2+2 together, he was probably hitting on the maids, but then I’m probably cynical, and who can blame me?!
You’re in your mid 20s and married men are hitting on you, I’m in my mid 40s and guess what? Married men are hitting on me. If anything it’s worse. Probably they think I’ll be grateful for the attention, but like you I find it upsetting, even depressing.
I’ve had a couple of good long term relationships with men who didn’t cheat on me. It’s very easy to tell if a man is a cheating type – he’ll come on to you while in a relationship, because men like these are never NOT in a relationship, they need constant attention.
I too see merit in marriage. I know that in the past it had overtones of ownership and control of women, but nowadays it can be what you want it to be, and for me it’s a simple statement of commitment – it’s a message to everyone that you’re a couple.
But I would say this – I don’t think there’s always something missing in the cheat’s marriage, I’ve had quite a lot of experience of cheating men – men I’ve known for 15 years or so as friends have cheated or wanted to cheat with me. These men don’t change, they’re a ‘type’. They repeat the same behaviour in each relationship, that’s why it’s so extremely rare for a man to leave his wife for a mistress – he’s not with the mistress because his wife is lacking something, he’s with the mistress because he craves excitement and attention. This is why alpha males are usually cheaters – they’re people who love challenge and excitement, they’d never be happy pushing paper in an office all day and the same goes for seeing the same woman every day
This is why many women go for the ‘beta’ man, and it’s also why men go for less exciting female partners too. This combo is more likely to spell love and trust, the sex might not be all fireworks but as long as you enjoy it that’s great.
Truth is – a man is never going to be the one thing that makes a woman happy, and vice versa. But most men and women will stick with the commitment if there are kids involved – beyond the call of duty even.
“You know the guy you mention whose marriage broke down, and ten maids had to leave? I’d tend to put 2+2 together, he was probably hitting on the maids, ”
Actually it wasn’t; from what I understood his wife had (or maybe still has) depression and personal issues and kept changing maids and accusing them of being incompetent when it probably wasn’t the case. It wasn’t a case of infidelity but really just personal issues and perhaps marriage by function vs. true connection/love that eventually caused this connection to dwindle off.
Hi celes! You hit it girl! I loved ur blog so much:) the topics are very helpful:) and you gave us something to think about. Keep rocking! God bless:-)
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