“Never Work Again” Seminar – Days 3 & 4 Review and Conclusion

This is the final part of my review for T. Harv Eker’s “Never Work Again” four-day seminar. Be sure to read parts one and two before reading this post.

Never Work Again, Day 4

Marcus, one of  the 2 hosts and one of my favorite speakers. Sorry for the low res pic as it’s taken with my phone.

As I mentioned in Day 2 update, I was running my own workshop on 7 Habits of Straight A Students on NWA Day 3, so I didn’t attend NWA morning and afternoon sessions. After my workshop, I planned to attend the remainder of NWA for Day 3, only to see Tatt’s sms that O and him have left the seminar as it was the same formula used in Day 1 / Day 2. Every new speaker was there to talk about his method of earning passive income (with supposedly massive results), followed by sales pitch for his program/course to learn more about it. The topics were also not relevant. Hence, I went back home as well to take a rest.

Separately, my workshop went well – I was training school students on the habits to get top results, and some parents even came to accompany their kids!! Talk about real dedication! I’ll be continuing part two next Sat on Plan Your Way To A-Stars. Most of the same participants will be back and with new attendees too, so I’m looking forward :D

Here’s a run-down of the agenda for Days 3 and 4. Again due to intellectual property reasons, I’ve listed down the subject of the segments but not the actual topic titles.

Day 3 Agenda

  • Successful Investing*
  • iPhone/iPad Mobile Applications*
  • Payday lending*
  • Better Trades System*
  • Speaker Panels Discussion - Q&A session between all the speakers and the audience members.

Day 4 Agenda

  • Lifestyle Trading*
  • Membership Sites
  • Pre-Development Land Investing. Tatt, O and me left NWA mid-way through this segment.
  • T. Harv Eker NWA Concluding Video

* These are the sales pitch sessions. They follow this general formula: (1) A 10-minute introduction on why this particular method creates passive income (2) 15-minute brief sharing on how they do it, followed by (3) 20-minute sales pitch for their course/program to learn this skill so you can create passive income for yourself.

Overall Conclusion

After four days, I give NWA an overall rating of 1/10. And here’s why:

1) Did not meet the workshop objectives

If we look back to the list of deliverables promised in the workshop description, pretty much none of them are met. Let’s review the description in its Promotional Brochure (text in blue are my comments):

  • A) Proven strategies and investment techniques to develop and increase passive income. Not really. We are made aware of the methods people use to earn passive income and the basic steps they do so, but we do not learn the actual full set of strategies or techniques on how we can achieve the same outcome for ourselves within NWA. We have to sign up for additional courses/programs in order to learn that (cost between SGD $1,000 to $5,000, usually on the higher side).
  • B) Practical earning strategies that guarantee you more time and money. No. See A).
  • C) How to create businesses that work for you, rather than control you. Absolutely not. See A).
  • D) Which businesses are the real cash cows. Not that I know of.
  • E) How to earn $20,000 to $100,000 in passive income each and every month for the rest of your life. Definitely not. The segment which had this topic was about Membership Sites (refer to Day 4 agenda) and as I mentioned under Day 4′s agenda, it was just an introductory 101 module on what membership sites are.
  • F) A wide variety of high return, low-risk investments normally available only for sophisticated investors. Not that I’m aware of.
  • G) How to gather investment contacts and find rare opportunities. No!
  • H) And much more!
  • I) Plus you’ll leave with your own personal plan. Absolutely not. I did not leave with any personal plan whatsoever. Maybe it was covered as the last segment of Day 4 (which I skipped), but I highly doubt so seeing how Days 1 to 3 panned out.

#2) Misrepresentation of what was offered

There were two levels of misrepresentation in NWA.

a) At the fundamental level, NWA gave the impression that it was going to teach actual passive income strategies we could immediately apply in our lives/work/businesses. According to Tatt, that was how they pitched the NWA during MMI, and that was why he signed up. Based on reading the workshop brochure myself, I got the same impression as well, especially from points #A-#C. However, it turned out to be a pitch fest with barely any real content.

As I mentioned in Day 2 Review, NWA can be useful to people who (A) are open to different methods and tactics to achieve financial freedom, (B) are willing to put in real hard work and effort to create their passive income streams via the specific methods/tactics introduced speaker, and (C) are willing to spend more money to sign up for the respective programs (and bear in mind that it’s a grey area as to whether these programs will deliver on what’s promised, or will simply be fluff or worse still, further upsell you to more programs without giving any significant value).

However if you already know what you want to do and you want to learn how to create passive income streams around what you are doing, you will get pretty much nothing from NWA.

b) Overhype on the results one can achieve. Let’s assume the speakers are credible, legit and have achieved the successes for themselves. (Though I personally haven’t heard of any of them, including the guy speaking in the online marketing segment, except T. Harv Eker.) Suppose they did pursue passive income before and they earned massive amounts of it, and continue to do so today, via the methods they claimed. Suppose the claims are real and not skewed / exaggerated / selected snips of the bigger picture.

However, the general impression driven throughout NWA was that you can just sign up for the course (Google Adsense, Forex, Trading, Tax Liens, Mobile Apps, etc.), spend a few weeks learning the skill, and in no time you will be earning large amounts of passive income. In my Day 2 Review, I wrote in detail on how passive income does not come overnight — heck, I run a passive income business and course myself and I take great care that none of my participants walk away with such a thought. True passive income requires hard work, proper strategies, proper planning, and deliberate action taking. 

Speaking of which, I saw some middle-aged aunties seemingly putting down their hard-earned savings for the Google Adsense course, and honestly I felt a little worried as I’m not sure if they knew what they signed up for. Why? Because they didn’t seem English literate at all, much less tech savvy. The salesperson at their booth also did nothing to give them an objective assessment of what to expect. Rather, he kept telling them that they would learn everything to generate passive-income online in their program, right from Step A to Step Z. The aunties, seemingly not knowing better, then paid the money, signed on the invoices, and then walked away with a slightly clueless look on their faces.

#3) Barely any content

Out of the entire four days, the only real content segments were:

  • A) How To Write A Best Seller’s Book by Eker (Day 1)
  • B) Literary Agent and Book Publishing (Day 1)
  • C) Licensing (Day 1)
  • D) Successful Investing (end of Day 2, start of Day 3)
  • E) Membership Sites (Day 4)

By content, I’m referring to the segments with real value, sharing actionable insights/lessons and not masqueraded as sales pitches. Out of the five segments above, only (A) and (D) had concrete value. Eker’s segment on how to write the best seller’s book is the reason why I gave NWA a redeeming score of 1 over 10, else it would have been 0/10. Information covered in (B) and (E) can be easily found by doing a little self-research and reading one to two books on the subject. I can’t comment for (C) as I skipped the session.

With a seminar outline as detailed in #1, I would think they should share passive income principles for us to apply right away to our lives. But it was really just specific tactics covered and even then we didn’t get to learn anything about them that we could action upon (without signing up for more programs).

#4) Poor planning

As I mentioned in Day 1 Review, there could be an overall framework that maps out the entire four-day seminar. But there was none of this. It came across as a random mish-mesh of different people/companies with passive income tactics to share with us.

There was also no agenda at all. None of us knew who the speaker was until he came on. Even when we asked the crew, they had to check, and at times gave the wrong information. Being a multi-speaker seminar hardly serves as a reason for no agenda. Hay House’s I Can Do It! Conference is a multi-speaker event and has its speakers and agenda planned out all till its events for the next year, and it costs nowhere as much as NWA.

#5) Dragged out agenda

There was a lot of energizer sessions (i.e., sessions where we are asked to get excited, dance around, shout, meditate, read declarations, and so on and so forth). There was one every morning (one hour) and then after every break (about six breaks in total each day) for about 15 minutes. These are fine for the belief breaking seminars where the audience need to be in the right state to make the maximum change, but since this was more like a pitch fest, it was quite a waste of time. Removing all these fluff, we could easily have had a two-day, if not one-day, seminar.

Update: Request for NWA Refund (Failed) + Terrible Customer Service

So after the seminar, my friend (Tatt) promptly tried to ask for a refund (after all he paid $1,995 SGD / $1,600 USD for what was a pitch fest). What ensued was one of the worst customer service responses I’ve ever seen. I’ll simply paste their exchange and let you be the judge.

From: Tatt 
To: Quantum Leap SRPL <qlprogram@srpl.net>
Sent: Monday, June 7, 2010 0:54:56
Subject: Feedback on NWA 3-6 Jun 2010 in SG

Dear Staff

This weekend, I attended T.Harv’s Never Work Again (NWA) on 3-6 Jun 2010 in Singapore and it was my first Quantum-Leap (QL) course after Millionaire Mind Intensive (MMI). I agreed that MMI was one of the best life-changing seminars; then, I chose QL program to continue my journey with T.Harv’s courses. But this NWA was totally under expectation to me, my guests, and some of QL members I met here. It was hardly to recommend this to any of my business partners in the future. Key reasons are

1. Content – Too much over promising & selling without sharing insightful knowledge. Most of speakers’ contents were very basic – could be easily found from speakers’ or relevant websites. In addition, it was not localized for target audiences whom were mainly from Asian countries. We found that some of speakers just have a good network to bring great gurus under their teams and selling the courses much higher than the real gurus. We questioned if trainers had made money from training more than their investment, there would be something wrong.

2. Poor structure – No framework connecting during 4-day. There was no connection in each trainer; for example, you started with Real estate and came to Future/Options, then, went back to real estate again. Also, you did not provide any introduction or fundamental knowledge to each topic. I would say NWA was not a seminar but it was just a pitching stage for each speaker to sell their product/service. I am fine for selling “advanced” course but after you had provided fundamental & applicable knowledge first. NWA was not a seminar; it was like a “Investment/Trade Fair” which could be attended for $0 cost.

(Celes: Plus some other information I’ve already provided in point #1 of this article which Tatt used in his e-mail; I’ve cut it out for brevity.)

In net, this NWA was just good for the eye-openers but not worth as much as S$1995 course. I acknowledge that refund policy might not be applicable for this case; however, I would like to ask full money back for NWA course (NOT the whole QL program). (Celes: QL is Quantum Leap, and the QL program is this $8,072.65 SGD ($6,500 USD) package of five programs under T. Harv Ever’s team that Tatt bought during MMI. NWA is one of these five programs, which is quoted as $1,995 SGD ($1,600 USD) in the package.)

I hope that this email would address my concern to the right person. Looking forward to receiving your reply within a week.

Best Regards

Here’s their reply, NINE days / over a WEEK later (which is terrible by customer service standards by the way; most of my customer service responses to any company are responded within a day, sometimes hours, with the longest being three days which is already considered slow):

From: stanley quek <xxx@srpl.net>
To: Tatt 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 16:55:27

Dear ,

Thank you for your feedback.

We understand your concern and your feedback to us is valuable. However, there will be no refund since you have attended the program.

Thank you for the support.
Stanley Quek

I’m not sure if this is typical of customer service responses from Success Resources or just Mr. Stanley Quek’s personal attitude. Either way this is one of the worst customer service responses I’ve ever seen. No attempt to address Tatt’s concerns (poor quality of seminar, misrepresentation of the content taught), no attempt to allay his obvious frustration, no refund (or even partial refund) for a service that was deemed heavily under-delivered by the customer, and some sweeping generic statement of “Your feedback to us is valuable” that says nothing except that he’s probably going to archive and ignore Tatt’s complaint right after clicking “Send”!!!

Note that this isn’t some $5, $10 or even $100 product, but a seminar that costs $1,995 SGD / $1,600 USD. That’s not chump change by any means. Also, Tatt is a Quantum Leap member who has purchased $8,072.65 SGD / $6,500 USD worth of Harv programs from them. That’s a good chunk of his life savings. He also had to get his own plane ticket (he’s not local), arrange for his accommodation, and pay for them (all out of his own pocket) to come to Singapore and attend the seminar (which turned out to be a disappointment). I don’t know, but I personally would expect much, much more.

Tatt responded right away on the same day (I’ve bolded key points below):

From: Tatt 
To: stanley quek <xxx@srpl.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 22:49:16
Subject: Re: Feedback on NWA 3-6 Jun 2010 in SG

Dear Stanley

I am sorry to say this is the worst customer service response I have received before. First, I have waited for your response over 10 days (since 6 Jun) and you did not mention anything about my concern or how you will improve for the future courses. Second, you mentioned that there is no refund if I have attended the program; therefore, I would like to desperately ask full refund for the balance courses for myself and my family member.

1. Refund Quantum Leap – Mr. 
Total: S$8,072.65 Minus NWA S$1995 = Refund S$6,077.65
Note that I attended NWA as the first course in QL program

2. Refund Mission to Millions – Mr. 
Refund full amount: S$957.65

If you would like to have conversation via phone, pls feel free to contact me on 17-18 Jun, 2-5PM SG time. Looking forward to receiving your reply soon.

Best Regards

After two days, no response. Tatt followed up:

From: Tatt 
To: stanley quek <xxx@srpl.net>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 17:18:11

Dear Stanley

Reminder – please response.

Best Regards

Six days later, STILL no response. Amazing. Tatt then sent another follow up:

Dear Stanley

Second reminder – please response

Best Regards

Then finally, a whooping 22 days / three weeks after Tatt’s original reply on JUNE 16, Stanley responded:

From: stanley quek <xxx@srpl.net>
To: Tatt 
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2010 14:27:30

Dear Tatt,

I am sorry that the program did not meet your expectation. However, you have attended the program and we can’t possibly give you a refund. We really hope you can understand our position in running this business.

You may still cancel the programs which you have signed up but it will result in a 20% of cancellation fee. The terms and conditions are printed at the back of your order forms. The following is the correct calculation:

1. Refund Quantum Leap - 
Total: S$8,072.65 Minus NWA S$1995 = S$6,077.65
$6,077.65 – $1,215.53 (20%) = $4,862.12

2. Refund Mission to Millions – Mr. 
S$957.65 – $$191.53 (20%) = $766.12

My advice to you is not to cancel because it will not benefit you. We certainly hope that you will find more value in the future programs. If you insist in cancellation and refund, we will proceed as the above terms and conditions.

Thank you.
Stanley Quek


Tatt subsequently tried to contact Peak Potential’s (T. Harv Eker’s company), but they said that since his membership and ticket were purchased from Success Resources, they couldn’t do anything for him.

In the end, frustrated by the 20% cancellation fee (no idea how they came up with it, and that’s a lot of cost for a cancellation fee for a service that’s not even delivered, plus the cancellation request was issued months in advance of the appointment), Tatt realized that cancelling meant paying $1,407.06 SGD / $1,125.65 USD and getting absolutely nothing in return. Resigning that the fees paid for Never Work Again were sunk costs, he and O (his friend whom he tried to ask for the refund for) decided to proceed the remaining courses without cancellation.

I didn’t follow up with them on their feedback on the other courses, but I did meet up with Tatt when he was in Singapore again to attend one of the remaining courses in his package. He said that this was better than NWA since NWA was essentially a sales pitch seminar, and also shared with me the course materials which I found lacking for a course in the thousands range. In comparison, the MMI booklet is way more comprehensive and meticulously done, and the ticket price for that is only $100~200, even free depending on how you got your ticket.

I think after the very negative experience, none of us have the faith nor interest to join any such seminars. I’ve subsequently read many other bad experiences that you guys have shared in the comments section of this series (the experience seems consistent in other countries too, so they’re probably following the same template training model), so hopefully the information shared here will help others who are currently contemplating between taking such courses or not.

Final Words

It was a disappointing seminar. I had a number of takeaways, but not on passive income generation — they were mainly on training, about what I should  / should not do for my future workshops and seminars to ensure my participants get the most out of them. These came out of my personal observation of how the seminar was run, not actual content taught during the seminar. I also learned about how to write a best selling book from Eker’s Day 1 session. I had a series of reflections, which came more from being in mass seminar than specific to NWA.

Passive income IS possible – just that if you want to learn real, actionable strategies on how to create passive income in your life/work/business, you are not going to get that in NWA.

As reader Francis commented, “I find that mostly they (seminars) are either fluff or are just chock full of a marketing materials with the aim to upsell you to the next more expensive tier of courses/product.” A seminar like NWA is precisely the reason why many have such impression of self-help seminars.

Certainly, not all seminars are like this. I’m sure there are great seminars out there, say like Tony Robbin’s Unleash the Power Within (I’ve never attended it so I can’t comment). NWA has left me with a bad taste, though I understand that MMI is not like. Though, one can argue that MMI is more content- and value-driven since it’s meant as the low-to-no-cost introductory course to build goodwill and convince the participants to sign up for the costly “advanced” courses. Whichever way you choose to see it.

Would You Like Me To Continue With Such Reviews?

The point of this review isn’t for you to conclude that all such seminars are useless/scams, but to inform you about how it like and what to expect. (For what it is worth, I’m a coach/trainer myself and I have created many personal development courses, all of which have received winning testimonials from my participants — and no, they don’t cost a few grand unlike many of these supposedly transformational seminars.) There are genuinely good, high-value courses out there, and then there are the scammy, sales-driven courses which are out to get as much of your money as possible without delivering the value that commensurate with your investment. It’s about being discerning and making sure that you invest yourself in the former and stay away from the latter.

I hope you’ve found this review helpful. This is the first time I’m doing a seminar review on PE, so if you would like me to continue reviewing other seminars I attend, please let me know in the comments area.

  • Ed Wilkinson

    Thank you for the review. I frequently get invites to such seminars and that coincides with my impression that they are mainly fluff designed to attract clients. If more people such as yourself hold them accountable, the presenters might be inspired to include more ‘real’ content.

  • Ronaldo

    Great review. Very informative and level-headed.

    Keep it up !

  • http://www.joshuanoerr.com Joshua Noerr

    Wow, Celes, I am sorry that program disappointed so much. I am a fan of Eker’s books and am disappointed it did not deliver on the same level.

    But, congrats on a successful workshop!

  • http://personalexcellence.co/blog/ Celes

    Thanks a lot everyone for your feedback – I really appreciate you taking time to share your thoughts :D. I’m glad this review has been helpful to you – as Cyril said, these workshops can be quite costly and it’s good to know whether they deliver before investing in them.

    Based on your positive responses, I’ll continue to review all other seminars/workshops (and occasionally personal development books/products) that I use. I anticipate my next seminar should be Eker’s MMI (in Nov). I’ll keep you guys posted. :)

  • http://www.websproutconsulting.com/blog/ KC

    Hi Celes,

    I want to thank you for writing the reviews for NWA as your thoughts are similar to my friends’ who have attended the event. Having said that, I highly recommend MMI in terms of content and value. I hope to see your review for this year’s MMI and other seminar and courses you are going to attend in future.

    Take care!

  • Chris

    Hi Celes

    I am Australian. Firstly there is a saying over here “if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is”.

    Yes the review was helpful I am sure to many people & I for one hope you do further reviews.

    I’ve just come across your blog only over the last few days & I am very very impressed.

    Keep up the good work Celes.

  • http://www.singlemomrichmom.com Single Mom Rich Mom

    Excellent review!

    I just wanted to note that about a dozen or so years ago, I attended Harv’s MMI and was a member of his monthly coaching club – this was back in the day when he did everything himself. I remember him talking about his difficulties in pushing himself to write his book back then. Interesting to note now that it took him a few years after that to publish his book.

    I also attended the second offering of the Warrior Camp in 1998-9 I believe. It was a great experience, almost all done personally with Harv and 2-3 sessions every day of the course (I think it was 5 days?) with others. For $500 (I know it was cheap at the time, but he was really just starting out), it was a great deal.

    This is just my personal opinion so take it for what it’s worth, but I’m not sure of the validity of his personal story – and the only reason why I say that is that his wife was still working as a stewardess – or whatever politically correct term there is for them now – I believe, and I got the impression that they actually needed her to be doing that kind of work for him to get the spousal free flying benefit in order for him to be able to travel to put on the seminars. Just sayin’ – that it seems that if he was really a millionaire at the time, would his wife be working?

    Personally, I didn’t have huge “breakthroughs” in the Warrior Camp OR the monthly coaching program OR MMI, although they were all a load of fun and would recommend that people attend – IF they can afford it (I really couldn’t at the time that I took all of them). What did work like gangbusters for me was the Landmark Forum which I attended in ~2005. Although it doesn’t address money directly at all, I don’t think it was a coincidence that my income increased by a factor of 5 within 4 years after taking the course – and this was in a regular office type job, not my own business.

    For $500 (I think it’s a cost of $600 today), it paid for itself 1,000 times over both with money and being passionate about my work. What the LF provided to me was a huge excitement and drive to be excellent in my work and life where I was sort of drifting before that. I never went on to any of the other courses that they offer due to being kind of disillusioned with the self-help industry in general and their push to sign up others (they call this “enrolling”, but I think a key distinction is that you don’t have to enrol others in LF to ‘be enrolling’, but perhaps to get others excited about things you’re excited about), but am now considering going on to the advanced course offered by LF. And go figure – here, 5 years later, I’m actually telling other people about the course that changed my life, so I guess I am enrolling after all. :-P

    • garry

      Than you so much for the info i did the mmi and longdays were there as well any course worth it’s salt should be im glad that i went to mmi for FREE wich is about what it is worth at best id say a $400 dollar value i got more value out of the land mark forum but it is not finance directed however the dude that created lulu lemon walked out of the forum .with no money and created it .. i also did the ilumination intensive with Warior Sage wich will give you a good look at your guts . thank you for saving me money… :) :!:

  • doppelganger

    Thank you!!!

    I attended MMI and thought it was phenomenal. Yes, there is a lot of selling. I don’t like that they get people in a vulnerable position (perhaps struggling with finances) and then urge them to spend thousands of dollars on the spot.

    However, you don’t have to buy anything and I really experienced a mind-shift while there. I would highly recommend it. I also attended the Enlightened Warrior Training Camp and found it extremely valuable.

    I was thinking of taking NWA but really wanted to hear from someone who had attended. I had a sneaking suspicion that it would be like MMI with the selling. The course is offered on the other side of the country so it would take effort and expense to do it. Just like you, based on the course description I would have expected to leave with something tangible.

    So THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I believe you just saved me thousands of dollars, time and frustration. Keep up the great work.

  • http://personalexcellence.co/blog/ Celes

    Hey all, I’m glad all of you found the review helpful :D I’ve also received many emails from readers who have found the review helpful too and helping them decide whether to join NWA or not, so I’m glad I was able to help in that regard. Definitely going to continue reviewing future seminars I go to. I’ll be attending MMI in Nov this year (my seat is confirmed), so will be reviewing in real time then.

    Separately, a number of people, after reading the NWA review, have commented to me that “MMI is similar to NWA too with the selling”. I just want to clarify IMO that NWA is no way similar to MMI – it had no actual content taught in the seminar and was really just a massive pitch fest. Any content it shared were surface-level information which leads to the pitch for the product/service, and unless you sign up for it, that info has no constructive use whatsoever. It would have been more reasonable if it was a free entry seminar, but for a couple thousand dollar seminar which requires participants to buy further thousand dollar courses to finally real benefits (not sure if those will in turn up-sell to anything else), IMO the money can be better invested in other courses.

    On the other hand, for MMI – I believe it is truly going to be helpful (as mentioned in the post) cause it’s an actual content-based seminar (yes I anticipate selling still but at least there’s real content and it costs only $0-$200 depending on how you get the tix). I’ve also seen the 100+ page workbook by my friend who attended and there are some actual, concrete concepts/principles taught inside. Stay tuned for the review in Nov :)

  • Don Ashleigh

    Thanks for the great review! We just came back from the Melbourne, Australia’s 3 day Millionaire Mind Intensive and it was loaded with aggressive upselling to other seminars. It was like watching lamb to the slaughter. They psyched up the audience so much that they became mindless and easily manipulated. We watched people running to purchase products and seminars. It was a painful, dragged out event with little content, lots of psycho babble and major upselling focus. I see how he makes his money … seminars! He didn’t appear caring at all. We found Harv to be aggressive and angry at times and at other times running off his script a bit more relaxed. He insulted some of the attendees that sat in their seats and didn’t run down the isle to sign up or buy products. It was a painful watch, painful to be there!

  • Ky Trang Ho

    Thank you for this well-written, in-depth review. I attended MMI this past weekend in Anaheim, California, USA after hearing rave reviews. Several attendees I met had been to multiple MMIs. My sister is an event volunteer and has been trying to get me to go for three years. She believes in Peak Potentials and has been to other seminars.

    It was phenomenal and I learned so much. I was so enthralled, I signed up for the “Quantum Leap” program, which includes access to six seminars: “Real Estate Workshop,” “Enlightened Warrior,” “Never Work Again,” etc.

    My husband was very upset and we argued about my purchase for a long time. As a psychiatrist, he thought many of the tactics they used at MMI were outdated, ex. snapping your wrist with a rubber band to end negative beliefs. He said research proved this was ineffective 30 years ago. Telling people that the course normally costs $49,846 but if you sign up on the spot, it costs only $6995, preys on people’s impulses because it doesn’t let people ponder and do their homework.

    After reading all of the complaints on various websites and your review, I cancelled my purchase. You get three days to cancel. The passive income strategies they discuss are hardly passive. Investing in stocks, bonds, forex, etc. is hard work. Writing a best seller is even harder. As is attracting eyeballs online or creating a smartphone app.

    • http://personalexcellence.co/ Celestine Chua

      Hi Ky, you’re very welcome and I’m glad that this review (which I wrote several years ago) has been of help! It’s good that you get three days to cancel; I’m not sure if it’s due to clauses in U.S. law that protects consumers (not sure if there is such a thing for similar seminars/courses conducted in my country). One thing I’ve learned is that much of what they’re good at is removing participants’ purchase barriers and amping up their desire purchase (i.e. action threshold), after which said participants will then eagerly purchase without further thought.

      However, as far as content goes, I’m not sure if it really justifies the kind of money that’s paid — and that’s just my personal opinion of course. For example, one of my coaching clients (who wants to be a trainer) took their Train the Trainers Program (I think they claimed an original course price of $5,000 at that time? not sure about now) before and shared with me their notes; after flipping through the materials, I simply told him point blank that he could have learned this stuff with me in just two coaching sessions, tops. There was nothing inside that I didn’t already know and couldn’t teach him, and some of the material was really basic at best, at least in comparison to the stuff that I would have taught in my own courses/coaching (as I really prize and focus on delivering the best content/value very highly). It feels that many of such multi-thousand-dollar-priced courses spend the most energy honing their sales strategies than their actual content, and this is my conclusion after hearing a lot of feedback from different sources about different training programs (may or may not be Eker’s) and also being a trainer myself in the industry. May be good for grabbing the initial sale, but not sure if it’s good for creating a sustainable, life-long relationship with customers though.

  • MeowTheReadingCat

    Hi Celes,
    Thank you for writing this up. I have attended several courses created by T. Harve Eker. Mainly, Millionaire MInd Intensive, Enlighten Warrior Camp and Freedom Traders Intensive. I found all of them are beneficial. Enlighten Warrior Camp really helped me to go through my life and depression. I would recommend it to anyone.

    My only complain would be with Freedom Traders Intensive which is about trading US stocks. The trainer is Courtney Smith. It’s won’t be easy for total beginner. Since I had experiences with trading, I could understand most of it easily. But many of friends had difficulty to apply what the trainer teach. The trainer actually over promised on his method. Me being quite an experinced trader, I had many doubts with him. Especially when he said, it would work in any market and so on. Actually, some of them who used his method lost money. I some how did gain some new knowledge, but it won’t be the same for everyone else.

    Next week, I’ll be going for Never Work Again. I’m sure many won’t gain anything from it as you mentioned, it’s a sales pitch. I’ll be still going for it as I got the ticket for free. Only expenses would be to travel from Malaysia to Singapore, and double my usual meal expenses. Since I have attended other similar seminar, I believe I’ll still gain something out of it.

    Now, when I heard some people says that even MMI is useless and so on, I begin to wonder, why? Then finally I realized something after attending some Amway seminar last week. People (Majority) wants to be guided step by step to make money, to create a business, to create a passive income. Many do not have the entreprenuer mindset. Those who have this mindset, all they need is the idea and they’ll expand upon it. But most people, you give them an idea, they still won’t do anything as they have zero idea what to do next. Perhaps, these people need coaching rather than training. And the coaching need to be done by genuine experienced people. Not someone like Robert Kiyosaki. :p

    • http://personalexcellence.co/ Celestine Chua

      Hi Meow, I hear you. I think people teaching trading courses need to market their courses in an ethical way, because the reality and fact is that there are high risks in trading. I’ve known personal friends who lost a lot of money, and I mean like entire life savings, in stock markets. They aren’t stupid; they are very very intelligent people. They weren’t emotional as well (which a lot of people like to use “emotions” as a glossed-over explanation for why people lose money when I believe there are many other factors like markets inherently being a zero-sum game and hence there’ll always be losers for every winner); they were quite logical. Markets have their own volatility and there’s no 100% foolproof method. I’m not a trader, I don’t trade, and I’m not going to comment about trading technicalities, but I do believe that a lot of trading courses erroneously gloss over the gains of trading (and down play the risks) when the people really earning from trading are probably 0.01% of traders out there, and also I suspect that many of these trainers who teach about trading earn majority of their income from teaching the courses, not trading.

      On the NWA, that’s good that you got the ticket free and you’ve read this series before attending. Just be aware of the things I raised in this series and I think you’ll do fine. Personally I really gained nothing from attending the live seminars and they were entire pitch fests, and they weren’t bashful about doing the pitches as well. As someone who runs a business myself, the things “taught” inside were basically baiting information meant to lead up to the final sale. To quote some other commenter, it really did feel like many of the people rushing to get the courses (from internet marketing, to stocks, to what not) felt like lambs to the slaughter. IMHO many of them were overpriced courses and I’m skeptical about whether they can actually deliver the final value, and also like I pointed out in the series, there is a lot of variance, learning curve, and hard work involved in every P.I. stream. I feel that the pitching totally glosses over this entire fact and gives the impression that as long as people sign up for the course, they’ll earn massive P.I. almost right away.

      On MMI, actually I rarely hear people saying that MMI is useless, so that’s a new comment to me. I think most people generally feel MMI has value and hence they sign up with the other courses with confidence, only to be disappointed later on. I do believe that their other courses have their own value (whether they’re worth the cost is dependent on individuals), but NWA was basically just a sales fest.

      • MeowTheReadingCat

        Hi Celes, I agree with you on the traders who teach trading. Majority of them are not really active traders. Many of them are successful with demo account trading. As for real successfull trader, the rate is not as low as 0.001%. That’s ridiculuosly low. I would say, it’s 10%, same like any business world. My main income comes from trading, and I have met may other full time traders. They don’t train people.
        Of course, trading is not as easy as those trainers would say, there are many risks not mentioned in their training, because those trainers are not well experienced. Just like a business, there are many things need to be met in order to be successful in trading.
        The method or system need to first make money. Some trainers teaches system which only works well on demo account.
        Second, must identify what are the downfall of the system. There are no perfect system. Based on the downfall, we need to know how minimize the risk and maximize the profit. It’s not easy.
        Third, the monet risk management. I’m not talking about the simple stop loss risk management. An actual risk management would only allow you to trade 1-10% risk exposure.
        And believe it or not, emotion does play a big role in losing money. We may think we are not emotional, the problem is many of us would not know on how to identify that emotion. Many might say I don’t show emotion, but I do have a lot of emotions in term of emotional baggage. It’s not just as simple as fear and greed. I have lost money because of my emotion.

        Btw, my take on NWA, it’s not worth the money to pay and attend it. I feel ity for those who paid more tham RM4000 to attend it. The night session was good, but not worth the money. As usual, there were many other trainers were pitching about their programs. There were 2 trainers on trading. One of them is Courtney Smith, which I still haven’t heard of anyone making money using his method 100%. The other, can’t remember his name, but using newly created jargons to make people confused with simple support and resistance tradings. Both not worth it.
        The rest, I believe there were some con men or fakesters, who claim they are making millions in properties, tax lien and online marketing. There are one or two which I beleive you can make money based on their teachings.

        What makes me sad is? Many of my friends, when I try to tell them the risk, they tend to ignore my advices. Even thou I am a full time trader, people tend to go deaf on my advice. Maybe because I can’t claim a millionaire yet or those trainers are perceived as millionaire.

        Anyway, if anyone wants to learn trading, I think the best place is to learn from books, internet and even the brokers/remisier (they’ll know some basic at least). I started by learning a simple technique from a remisier. It made me a lot of money, then stopped making any money for a while. I learned the flaw of the system and started to explore other ways and methods.